by Jes

Still so little to talk about ...

My pal Joeri Loonen wrote up a recap of the Slovak Hockey Federation's awards ceremony. Marian Hossa was the big wiener as he won his third straight Golden Puck for being the best Slovak not named Pavol Demitra.

Best goalie? Peter Budaj
Best defenseman? Lubomir Visnovsky. How he got the vote over Zdeno Chara makes me wonder how much hot wine the voters were quaffing.

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Gretzky to Detroit? It could have happened ... and I would have still hated Detroit just as much. Joe Pelletier has a look at what could have been.

You know what, it was much better for Detroit that the trade never happened. Detroit would have never done quite as well with Gretzky, especially how atrocious defensively he was ... I can't see Gretzky fitting in with that left-wing lock Wings system very well.

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Over at The Hockey News, Brian Costello asks us "When will [Guy] Carbonneau be recognized by Hall of Fame committee?"

To which I ask, "When was Guy Carbonneau ever considered one of the Top 20 players in any one season he played in?"

The answer: Never.

While we all know that Guy was a great defensive center, it is MUCH MUCH MUCH harder to create and sustain offensive production in the NHL than it is to play defence.

The argument that Dick Duff is in the Hall of Fame is a awfully weak one. If we used Duff (or Clark Gillies) as the reason why any player should be in the Hall of Fame, we'd have the Markus Naslund's and Ray Sheppard's as shoe-ins.

Costello finishes with another weak argument: "So if the league gives out an award for defensive greatness among forwards, shouldn’t the Hall of Fame recognize that greatness as well? It’s hypocritical that it doesn’t, especially in an era when attempting to shut down the opposition is the common denominator in the game plan of all 30 NHL teams."

If the Dead Puck Era (not my term) has shown us anything, it is that just about ANY forward can play defense. Look at how Marian Gaborik, a puck-hungry greyhound, plays responsible defense. Playing defensive hockey within a tight system is much easier than trying to score against a team doing just that. There are far more Guy Carbonneau's in the league than there are Sidney Crosby's.

At the end of the day, one team cannot simply win by playing pure defense. Even in a 1-0 game, someone has to score.

Labels: Guy Carbonneau, Hall of Fame, Marian Hossa, musings, Slovak hockey, Wayne Gretzky

Well, the idiots who run the Hockey Hall of Fame inducted Glenn Anderson, Igor Larionov, and two other non-player jabronis (Ed Chynoweth, former WHL president in the Builder Category and Ray Scapinello in the Referee/Linesman Category).

I understand that referees and 'builders' contribute a lot to the game, but the fact is that the PLAYERS make the game, and should be put above the officials and rich businessmen who profit from them.

Why is it that we continue to have so many builders and officials inducted while only two players make the cut?

TWO?

How can these morons induct only two players from the likes of Adam Oates, Phil Housley, Doug Gilmour, Dino Ciccarelli, and the other host of fine players that could have been considered?

*grumble*

Once again, the voters valued playoff exploits heavily as their selection of Glenn Anderson indicates.

Now, Glenn Anderson was certainly a fine player, and his playoff numbers (6 Stanley Cups and 214 points in 225 playoff games) are quite impressive, but was he anything other than a great supporting scorer during his career? Was Anderson ever one of the top players in the game at any one point? Did the HHOF not consider that Anderson is a horrible person who cheats his ex-wife out of alimony, among other lovely character traits?

Glenn Anderson was only ever ONCE in the top ten in scoring in any one season, when he finished with 104 in 1982-83. How many true Hall of Fame forwards, playing on the same frickin team as Wayne Gretzky and Mark Messier, would ever not make more Top 10's than that?

Meanwhile, superior players in Adam Oates, Doug Gilmour, and Phil Housley get the shaft. Crikey!

Yes, the same Adam Oates who had SEVEN Top 10 scoring finished, also finished with nearly a point-a-game in the playoffs, and sit 15th on the all-time points scoring list.

W
T
F?

As for Igor Larionov, I don't mind his induction, although not at the expense of more deserving players. I know Igor would make it eventually, anyway.

At least Vladimir Crouton wasn't inducted.

Labels: Adam Oates, Glenn Anderson, Hall of Fame, Igor Larionov

With the Hockey Hall of Fame set to induct some more members into the holy shrine, everyone and their mothers has an opinion on who should be in.

Joe Pelletier, who is quite knowledgeable about the players who are up for nomination, goes out on a limb and proclaims that Sergei Makarov and Vladimir Krutov should also be inducted, after assuming Igor Larionov's induction.

But are there more deserving European candidates than Larionov? We need not look any further than Larionov's own wingers to find two equally deserving Hall of Fame inductees, perhaps even more worthy - Sergei Makarov and Vladimir Krutov.

Igor Larionov was the unselfish and brainy chessmaster of the KLM Line. With his help, both Vladimir Krutov and Sergei Makarov harnessed their near limitless raw talent and became the best players in the world. I am absolutely convinced that both Krutov and Makarov are among the top 5 wingers of the 1980s. I would suggest only Mike Bossy and Jari Kurri would challenge either for top billing, with Michel Goulet maybe rounding out the top 5.

First, let's get it right out there: The Russians were a bunch of professionals in the guise of 'amateur' status that routinely beat up on true amateurs. Yes, they often did well against NHL competition in the rare times they met (Canada Cup), but not enough to get a true measure of their skill level. If we start inducting the likes of Krutov, then how about Milan Novy and Dzurinda? There are plenty of European players who you could make a case for, eh?

Krutov is an easy NO, given that he has a whopping 34 points in 61 NHL Games.

Yes, after doing very well for the Russian team, Krutov came to North America, got fat, and was out of the NHL after one season. He was 29 at the time, and finished off his career playing in the lower tiers of Swedish hockey. What a way to go, eh?

Unless you are Bobby Orr, you don't get inducted after finishing your good playing days at the age of 29. Krutov didn't prove himself to be at all good against NHL competition, and his career was quite short. At least Larionov proved himself worthy against NHL players. Krutov was simply a Russian-league star on a team that Communist government stacked well, and nothing more.

Makarov? At least his brief NHL career showed that he was a pretty good player. From the ages of 31-38, Makarov put up 384 points in 424 games. Showing that he was a point-a-game player after the age of 30, plus his international achievements, and you have a player that you can make a solid case for, if you do your homework.

In the end, I could see Larionov making it, and maybe Makarov in a very slow year, but never EVER Vladimir Krutov.

Labels: Hall of Fame, Igor Larionov, Sergei Makarov, Team Russia, Vladimir Krutov

Over at his Legends of Hockey site, author Joe Pelletier has a look at the potential candidates to be elected into the Hockey Hall of Fame in 8 eight days time.

Joe has gone so far as to do his own Power Rankings, although I have no idea what criteria he used other than his own encyclopedic knowledge of the game.

Here is his power rankings, with a couple of his comments left in there.
Doug Gilmour
Igor Larionov
Pavel Bure - The Russian Rocket was the game's most electrifying and explosive scorer in the 1990s. But his career was cut short by injuries. If Cam Neely got in, so will Pavel.
Adam Oates
Dino Ciccarelli
Sergei Makarov
Claude Lemieux
Glenn Anderson - Clutch playoff performer is one of the top 5 playoff scorers in most offensive categories. But the squeaky clean selection committee does not like his off-ice reputation.
Boris Mikhailov
Anatoli Firsov
Tom Barrasso
Pat Verbeek
Mike Richter

Others: Mark Howe, Neal Broten, Phil Housley, Mike Vernon, Andy Moog, Rogie Vachon, Wendel Clark, Dale Hunter and Guy Carbonneau.

---

Now, if I had a vote, you can be sure the HHOF would not include the likes of Clark Gillies. I'm not as anal as some Baseball HOF voters, but I think the HHOF should include only the very best. Playoff success is not a great measure of a player given how a guy like Gillies can simply get lucky to be where he was. Poor Marcel Dionne was one of the very best, yet he was stuck on crappy LA Kings teams and never got close to the Stanley Cup.

If I was to pick 3+1 players to get into the HHOF, my picks would be
1. Adam Oates
2. Phil Housley
3. Mark Howe
4. Boris Mikhailov

I add the +1 candidate because I believe the HHOF should keep 'International' players in a separate light, especially if they spent the majority or all of their careers outside of the NHL. Less and less players do so, but it's important to recognize the Mikhailov's.

Now, some explanations

Adam Oates vs. Doug Gilmour - I know the media love Gilmour, and will select him over Oates, but I consider Oates the superior player. Oates ranks higher in career assists, points, and points created per game than "Killer"

Phil Housley - I know the waif-like Housley is easily panned by most hockey fans, but how can the HHOF possibly leave out one of the best offensive defensemen to ever play the game?

He ranks 18th in career assists, 4th among D-men, ranks 36th in points all-time, and, until recently, was the king of all American point scorers.

Mark Howe - Unfortunately, I know that Mark Howe will never make the HHOF, despite his family pedigree.

Howe was simply one of the league's best defensemen back in the mid-early 80s, overshadowed only by the likes of Coffey, Potvin, and Bourque. Those Flyers teams were hard to score against, and Howe was the prime reason.

Oh, as a defenseman, he also ranks 24th(!) all time in shorthanded goals with 28, and ranks 11th all time with a +/- of +400. Howe was a complete defenseman, but barely ever got his due.

Bure - While Neely was voted in, Bure will not. The media love "Sea Bass", but see Bure as nothing short of a 'pouty cherry-picking Russian'. Sorry, Pavel

Larionov - I'd bet on him making it, but I'd rather take Mikhailov as the 'International' pick. Larionov's NHL career wasn't even close to HHOF-worthy, so that is why I'm not exactly keen on voting him in. Still, we can't deny the risks he took and the path he helped pave for other Russians.

Ciccarelli/Anderson - Despite their numbers and skill, the HHOF votes just plain don't like these guys for their off-the-ice exploits. I think Anderson was a good-but-not-great player, while Ciccarelli has the numbers to support his inclusion.

Clod Lemieux - Playoff exploits aside, Lemieux was an above-average player who got far more fame than he deserved. All too often, he'd coast through the regular season. A hall-of-fame forward from his era should do a lot better than only 2 70-point seasons.

Labels: Adam Oates, Boris Mikhailov, Clod Lemieux, Doug Gilmour, Hall of Fame, Igor Larionov, Mark Howe, Pavel Bure, Phil Housley

As most people know, the NY Daily News, a tabloid known for misinformation and sensationalism, screwed the pooch reporting Sean Avery as having Cardiac Arrest when he really just had a ruptured spleen.

In the rush to get the 'scoop', the tabloid sensationalized the story, and went with the first bit of 'knowledge' they had, rather than do some further investigating.

What is even funnier than the sloppy cover-up attempts is the fact that the 'reporter', John Dellapina, is fighting back and claiming some mass conspiracy.

Finally, for all those from other media outlets and newspapers who have sarcastically dismissed our initial web story about Sean Avery's hospitalization since the Rangers refuted it Wednesday afternoon, I wonder:

Was your initial reaction that the story couldn't have been correct or did you simply race up to the MSG Training Center to get player reaction? And, did you call the hospital and/or Avery's representatives to get the real story or did your "reporting" simply consist of taking the team's word for what happened?

Fortunately, the intrepid men an women of the press who have exposed baseball's steroid problems didn't similarly regurgitate what they were told by people who understandably want their businesses viewed as beyond reproach.

So, is there a mass cover-up by the Rangers and other media outlets? Did Avery really have a heart attack, and the team wants us to think otherwise? Not bloody likely.

Dellapina would have us believe that the rest of the media is doing sloppy reporting, and he had the real story, in a lame attempt to cover his ass. Yes, how dare other media outlets try to get the real story, after the NY Daily News made some serious claims about Avery's health.

It won't work, stupid!

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Wayne's World!!

Our Southern Correspondent shares some thoughts.

First, I heard the news about Sean Avery about I left this library...It couldn't have happened to a nicer guy; I'd like to see him on a slab on "CSI: New York"...Now on to the other stuff:

Montreal has a player named Francis Bouillon; if he played baseball, his teammates would call him "Soupy"...

What is that song that they play over the PA system in the Walk-over-ya Center whenever the Flyers score a goal? I remember it being played last year at Anaheim as well...Sure beats the hell out of Zombie Nation or Gary Glitter's "Rock and Roll, Part 2" (which should be buried once in for all in the desert outside Las Vegas, never to return)...

Darren Eliot, please STFU: You are the reason I turn down Thrasher telecasts to listen to Jeff Odgers and My Favorite Kamalian on the radio, and now you're boring people to tears on Versus...On the other hand, being boring and charisma-impaired may be a job-requirement at that channel (just look who they have doing the studio show)...

I knew the San Jose-Dallas game was gonna be a low-scoring snoozefest, so I warmed-up for the game by watching the UEFA cup game between Chelsea and Liverpool...was out cold before the end of the first half...

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Some banter between us FanHouse boys, and the realization that this could be THE END for many NHL legends.

From JP of Japers Rink

Don't know if anyone wants to make mention of it, but tonight could be the last chance fans get to watch the two active all-time points leaders - Sakic and Jagr - play (at least in the NHL).

3228 points, 4 Cups, 5 Ross Trophies, 2 Harts, 22 All-Star games, 2 Olympic Golds, etc., etc.

Throw Forsberg into the mix and the combined stats are even more ridiculous.

Don't forget about Jeremy Roenick and Brendan Shanahan. If this was the end for all of them, we'd be losing the 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 17th active all-time scoring leaders. Catch them while you can.

Labels: Hall of Fame, mainstream mediots, playoffs, Sean Avery

by Jes

David Pratt, in his Big Fat Rant, fumed about the fact that Jim Gregory was elected into the Hockey Hall of Fame in the Builder category.

Excuse me, but on Monday night did Jim Gregory, the chairman of the Hockey Hall of Fame's Selection Committee, actually induct himself?

Gregory spent one year as head coach of a pro hockey team.

The Toronto Maple Leafs were so impressed the next season they hired Gregory as an assistant coach and, after missing the playoffs, made him their general manager.

For the next decade, under his leadership, the Leafs never finished higher than third in their division and never went to a Stanley Cup final.

Gregory was rewarded for his failures.

Now, reading Pratt's Rant, you'd probably be thinking, "Hmm, just how the hell did a mediocre GM make the Hockey Hall of Fame as a builder?" The Hockey Hall has made many questionable picks under his tenure, such as Clark Gillies and Dick Duff.

Then, you could go here, or here , or even here, and realize that David Pratt's one-sided argument ignores many facts, and presents all of the facts as well a Michael Moore documentary.

Jim Gregory was not elected to the HHOF for his tenure as a coach or GM, but for his tireless work behind the scenes in the NHL. Responsible for setting up the Central Scouting Service, among other endeavors, Gregory is one of those glue guys that does a lot of work behind the scenes, but rarely gets credit for the stuff he does.

Admittedly, I know little about Jim Gregory, but if you are going to make a case against his (self)-induction, you could present a more convincing argument.

PS: Glen Anderson as a Hall of Famer? No.
PPS: Paul Henderson? This horse has been beaten to dust. One great goal doth not a career make.
PPPS: Mark Messier still is, and will always remain, a giant dick.

Labels: David Pratt, Hall of Fame, Jim Gregory

by Jes

Joe Pelletier, the Legends of Hockey Blogger, is asking for input on the Top 36 Hockey Players of all time.

Now, I can barely rank my favourite Spice Girls, let along hockey players, but I can provide SOME input. Perhaps some of you can as well, so leave comments here or over at Joe's site.

Here is a sample list he provides ...
"

1. The Pantheon - Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr. One could make a good case for any one of these gentlemen to be in the #1 spot, but nobody comes close to these three players.

2. Gordie Howe - Mr. Hockey is a definite #4. Longevity, dominance, and forever changing the way the game was played by introducing the Power Forward concept.

3. Tretiak and Kharlamov are out. The only evidence we have is the games they played on a loaded 'amateur' Russian team against the rest of the world. I realize that this list doesn't have to be exclusively NHL players, but I don't believe there is sufficient evidence to show that these two belong. If we are to add Russians, I'd be more comfortable with the likes of Fetisov and Larionov (Though he is far from the Top 36 of all-time).

4. The list will be skewed towards the current generation. Not only do we have more familiarity with the players of the past 20 years, but the NHL, and hockey world-wide, has expanded over the past 2-3 decades. There are simply a lot more skilled players to choose from.

5. Rank the positions first, and then combine them. If you think Patrick Roy is a better goalie than John Vanbiesbrouck, than Roy shouldn't be behind the Beezer in your master list.

6. I can scratch off a few players easily from the list above: Chris Chelios (good, but not nearly one of the elite), Ted Lindsay (great support player, but not one of the very best), and Bob Clarke, who is notorious and nefarious, but not at all elite.

7. If it doesn't feel right, don't do it. If you make a Top 10 or top list of anything, you better not have any doubts about something belonging there. If you feel that Brett Hull shouldn't be there, automatically scratch him off.

8. Ranking the goalies first, I'd go with Hasek, Plante, Roy, Dryden, Hall, Brodeur, and Bill Durnan.

9. Defenseman? Orr, Bourque, Lidstrom, Harvey, Potvin, Coffey, MacInnis, Stevens, and Red Kelly.

10. Forwards? That's a bit too busy for me, but I would consider Bryan Trottier and Pavol Demitra ;)

Once that is done, start combining and formulating your lists. Everyone has their own opinion, so hardly anyone will agree on the same list of players.

Labels: Hall of Fame, opinion

by Jes

With news slower than the thought process of your average Telus employee, there has been some debate today whether women players should be in the Hockey Hall of Fame.

Let me remind you that this is the year 2007, and we no longer have separate sections on the buses for them coloured people, and we do allow women out of the kitchen to vote in elections.

Don't tell this to Dave Harrison of Prince George, who apparently still pines for the 1930s, and thinks women's hockey has no place in the Hockey Hall of Fame.

Women's hockey is just a shade faster than Tai Chi but only half as interesting.

If any event is worthy of an "escape call" early in the first period, it's women's hockey.

As a crowd pleaser it seems to appeal only to other women who have convinced themselves that it's entertaining, feminist promoters of lost causes, anxious sponsors who are about to lose their shirts, milquetoast males who allow their women to choose their clothes (Real Men Don't Eat Quiche), and husbands who nod in agreement if they know what's good for them.

No self-respecting, red-blooded, beer-drinking, Canadian male hockey fan ever takes women's hockey seriously.

I will agree that women's hockey is boring (to me) and it is like comparing the original Iron Chef to the watered-down American version, but the Hockey Hall of Fame is not exclusively for males, in title or in theory.

How could a serious hockey fan ever discount the impact that certain female players have had on the game and on the national consciousness?

Cassie Campbell - Already a member of the Canada Sports Hall of Fame, Campbell was the first woman to ever do colour commentary on HNIC, won 2 gold medals, multiple World Championships, and is one of the best women players in history. She is very high profile and very successful, and definitely has no fans than Bernie Federko ever did. Few hockey women have been as marketable as Campbell, and her mark on the game is quite evident.

Hayley Wickenheiser - Arguably the best female hockey player of all-time, she managed to accomplish the feat of becoming a regular player in the Finnish 2nd division. Compared to her peers, she was head and shoulders above them in talent and ability to compete with men on a physical level.

Now, I am not advocating a dual Hall of Fame where we have 1 woman inducted every year as a 'token' gesture. I believe that the real Hockey Hall of Fame does have room for exceptional woman, such as the two above, and that we shouldn't simply relegate them to their own little Hall of Fame in Medicine Hat (or whatever dinky town they may think of). Simply declaring the Hockey Hall of Fame a male-only zone is not only regressive, but shows a general lack of understanding about our culture and the game we love.

Labels: Females in hockey, Hall of Fame

by Jes

Mark Messier was known as quite a player during his days here in Vancouver, and I'm not talking about what little he did on the ice. Messier was definitely a home here in Hollywood North, where he could spend precious exercise time chatting up actresses and filming chip commercials.

It's nice to know that the penis-headed fraud is getting the recognition he deserves by making it into the Hall of Fame.

From the Sports Hernia:

The former Oilers, Canucks and Rangers pussy-splitting forward has led an almost mythical journey through the bone zone, banging the likes of Madonna, a young Tyra Banks and supermodel Frederique, all while maintaining his mind-boggling run of 6,037 straight days in the zone as well. Visibly humbled by the overwhelming induction ceremony into the BZHOF, which recognizes the greatest ass antennas on Earth, Messier could barely get the words out.

"You know, growing up a small town boy in Alberta, Canada, never in a million years did I imagine I would be drowning in exotic supermodel ass" said the tractor-beam pants wearing Messier, "But now, years later, standing behind this bronzed penis microphone, I truly feel at peace with myself, with everything. Man, I've plowed some Grade A poon," he said, shaking his head and pausing for a moment. "Man."

Mark Messier: Truly a leader of men.

(Thanks to Wayne for the assist)

Labels: Hall of Fame, Messier, off-ice silliness

After being limited to 15 games this season, 40-year old Joe Nieuwendyk has decided to retire due to his constant back pain.

Joe has always been of an odd-ball, given that he's one of the few players who scored more goals in their rookie season than any other year of their careers. Joe had 51 back as rookie in 87-88 and again as a sophomore in 88-89. Strangely enough, he never hit that total again and his goal total decreased as time went on. Players don't usually take a purely downhill trend in their goal totals, especially ones who play over 1000 games.

Joe was also an atypical centerman, as he was not the pass-first, shoot-second type of centerman that we're accustomed to. Joe finished with exactly 564 goals and 562 assists, and had more goals than assists for pretty much his entire career. Joe played the offensive game a lot more like a winger than a centerman, yet managed to play great defence as a centerman is often expected to.

From TSN.ca:

Florida Panthers centre Joe Nieuwendyk has been forced to retire because of recurring back problems. Nieuwendyk announced his retirement Wednesday.

Nieuwendyk, 40, in his twentieth NHL season, scored eight points while playing just 15 of the team's first 29 games, because of injuries. The South Florida Sun-Sentinel reports that he visited a back specialist in Cleveland last Friday.

Nieuwendyk had 564 goals and 1126 points in 1257 career games and won Stanley Cups with three different franchises: Calgary (1989), Dallas (1999) and New Jersey (2003). He won the Conn Smythe Award as playoff MVP in 1999.

"I have the reached the stage where structurally my back isn't going to get any better. It's not the way I intended it, but I have to be realistic as well," Nieuwendyk said.

"He was an all-around elite player," said Montreal Canadiens general manager Bob Gainey, Nieuwendyk's coach and GM with the Dallas Stars. "He is the kind of player whose accomplishments merit consideration for the Hall of Fame."

Hall of Fame?

Well, it certainly merits CONSIDERATION, but does it merit a plaque on the same wall as Peter Stastny?

Given the HoF's strange selections in the past, it's hard to predict who exactly makes the 'criteria', but we'll do our best...

POINTS FOR:

The counting stats: 1118 points in the regular season (almost a point-a-game pace) and 116 in the playoffs. He'll finish in the Top 50 for regular season scoring and that is a big plus

The cups: We know how heavily the voters count cups, especially the fact that Joe won 3 with 3 different clubs. Joe was a big part of those wins, and didn't just happen to luck out as much as a guy like Mike Commodore.

Conn Smythe: Proof that Joe was a BIG player in the playoffs and very instrumental in a cup win.

Olympic Gold

Calder Trophy

Reputation: Joe has a very good reputation with the media as a typical "Canadian" player with a great attitude, leadership, and work ethic. Joe is also a King Clancy award winner and this will give him favour with the voters.

POINTS AGAINST:

Joe was never an elite player, despite what Gainey said. In fact, Joe was often the second best player on his own team (Calgary and MacInnis, Dallas and Modano, New Jersey and Stevens/Niedermayer).

4 All-Star games - Not that All-Star games are the greatest measurement, but Joe didn't play in a whole lot of them, and none after 1994.

Dino Ciccarelli, a player with more points and a better PPG pace is not in the Hall of Fame

Increased competition: There are many great players retiring in one big clump, which will make it harder to Joe to make the HoF, at least for awhile.

My choice would be that he's a Hall of Famer, given his counting stats, longevity, popularity and reputation in the media, and overall great 2-way play. He isn't the strongest Hall of Fame choice, but he certainly isn't nearly the weakest. He has a MUCH better case than Cam Neely

Greg Cartman @ The Puck Stops Hereagrees with the assessment:

He came back from the lockout as a valuable player even as a 39 year old. Despite missing 16 games to back problems, he is currently the third highest scorer on the Florida Panthers with 28 points in 36 games. He is still a valuable player to his team. Even after missing a season to lockout, Nieuwendyk has been a good scorer. Nieuwendyk is continuing to move up the all time goals list. He is currently the 23rd highest goal scorer of all time with 546 career goals. This season, he has passed Stan Mikita and Maurice Richard. Those are some elite players to have outscored. Had there been no lockout, Nieuwendyk would likely have moved another couple positions beyond that up the all time goal scoring list.

Labels: Analysis, Hall of Fame, Nieuwerndyk